tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362959652294607881.post4258622123415413889..comments2023-10-26T06:21:31.928-04:00Comments on Church Coffee: Bishop McLee, Human Sexuality, and Basic Christian Doctrine David F. Watsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02591588936482210240noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362959652294607881.post-76615219508062663602014-03-19T16:42:44.585-04:002014-03-19T16:42:44.585-04:00Holly, the standard I'd want to uphold is the ...Holly, the standard I'd want to uphold is the Golden Rule. A single, celibate heterosexual can always choose to marry if the opportunity arises, but a single, celibate gay or lesbian cannot because the opportunity is not offered. If I were gay, I'd want the option to be married (or ordained); therefore, I must be willing to extend that opportunity to others. Treat others as you'd wish to be treated -- that's the standard. Mea Sententiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13417580952765467708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362959652294607881.post-32680958781299657672014-03-18T13:07:42.774-04:002014-03-18T13:07:42.774-04:00CR--as a single, celibate, heterosexual, clergywom...CR--as a single, celibate, heterosexual, clergywoman, I hold to the current standard of our church--celibacy in singleness and faithfulness in marriage (between a man and a woman). I don't think our standard should be made "contextual". It applies to all who choose to be a disciple of Jesus. <br /><br />To water this standard down to become a "postmodern" notion diminishes the authority and witness of scripture and the church. Hollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08874674383120728311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362959652294607881.post-72447590950790724432014-03-15T10:20:55.522-04:002014-03-15T10:20:55.522-04:00Let me say a little more about truth. It's cle...Let me say a little more about truth. It's clear that the religious right doesn't know what to do with gays because gays shatter their settled notion of absolute truth, truth in scripture and tradition. It's also clear that the religious left doesn't know what to do with gays who believe, based on the Bible, that their sexual attraction is morally wrong and who choose not to pursue a same-sex relationship and instead live a celibate life. There are gays like this, and they are the minority within the minority, and the religious left doesn't know what to do with them because these traditional gays shatter the left's notion of absolute truth that arises from reason and experience. Each side, right and left, needs go give up its notion that it has the absolute truth on this ethical issue, and that it will determine how all gays must choose to live and believe. A postmodern idea of truth as decentralized, provisional, and contextual might help here. It is a more humble notion of truth, less universal. Mea Sententiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13417580952765467708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362959652294607881.post-70064106084841083832014-03-15T10:19:41.854-04:002014-03-15T10:19:41.854-04:00As usual, I find your comments insightful. The fr...As usual, I find your comments insightful. The frustration comes, I think, for those of us who have been around for a long time and have dealt with this issue for most of our ministries. The theological discussions have been ongoing for decades. When the issue could not be resolved we have watched, and often participated in the spiral down into political maneuvering. It has become politicized out of frustration for exactly the reasons you state in the last three paragraphs. It is, I believe, simply the sad fact that we are no longer in The "United" Methodist Church able to make a confession of faith that is even remotely compatible. Larry Bairdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399411108640700384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362959652294607881.post-64889629905774027062014-03-15T10:10:39.651-04:002014-03-15T10:10:39.651-04:00In addition to doctrinal study, I'd recommend ...In addition to doctrinal study, I'd recommend two other areas of study. 1) The Desert Fathers and Mothers in early Christianity. (Roberta Bondi is a good guide here.) The ancient monastics embodied a way of life that included a deep reluctance to speak at all with an abhorrence of judging others, (following Matt 7.1). There is so much speaking and judging among people today. The DFMs could teach us another way to be. And 2) postmodern philosophy. This may sound strange, but it could be useful. I am thinking of John Caputo here, in particular, and the postmodern idea that truth is not absolute but rather contextual. Both the religious right and religious left are operating under modernist assumptions that their truth is absolute for all times, peoples, and places. Perhaps a postmodern take here would help them to admit that their truth is provisional and contextual, especially in areas of ethics. Mea Sententiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13417580952765467708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362959652294607881.post-38084589951467109232014-03-14T16:04:20.403-04:002014-03-14T16:04:20.403-04:00An outpouring of the Holy Spirit WILL "work&q...An outpouring of the Holy Spirit WILL "work", Joel. All else follows from that--repentance, sanctification, and unity in Christ. Even theology and doctrine emerges from that gracious act of God. The question is, do we want to be healed and transformed?Hollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08874674383120728311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362959652294607881.post-64930519770355235692014-03-14T14:23:39.397-04:002014-03-14T14:23:39.397-04:00I'm not sure praying about it will actually wo...I'm not sure praying about it will actually work. I mean, God has to essentially choose sides...<br /><br />I think a focus on doctrine would be great, but I'm not sure it would solve the issue. One of the things that has interested me, however, is the theology of the person. I think if we developed that theology, and within the framework of the Great Tradition, we can start to solve this issue. J. L. Wattshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01000798494472742263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362959652294607881.post-90915813266127443452014-03-14T13:39:55.007-04:002014-03-14T13:39:55.007-04:00Perhaps if Bishop McLee had issued a call to praye...Perhaps if Bishop McLee had issued a call to prayer instead of prolonged dialogue, the United Methodist Church would have more of a chance.... <br /><br />He IS right, however that additional trials will only bring more pain and will not resolve anything. Lord help us. Hollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08874674383120728311noreply@blogger.com